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Mike Olley's avatar

Richard, again a fascinating and wideranging contribution and one has to admire the sheer breadth of historical reference you bring into these discussions, from Ford in the 1970s to local government reform and even the old GLC structures (bring it back?). Whether one agrees with all of it or not, it certainly provokes thought.

I think there is some truth in your broader point that both major parties increasingly lost the habit of listening properly to large sections of the electorate and became tied to institutional assumptions that hardened over time. I also agree that immigration policy under both parties often proceedead despite considerable public unease and that neither side ever properly levelled with the public about the longerm social and economic consequences, positive or negative.

That said, I would gently push back on one or two points.

I am not entirely persuaded that council housing itself was primarily a mechanism of “social control”. Much of the post-war municipal housing drive emerged from genuinely dreadful housing conditions, overcrowding and slum clearance and gosh what slums they were. The tragedy perhaps is that too much later planning became overly ideological and disconnected from human-scale communities. Some estates worked reasonably well initially, others became planning disasters. End of the day it has to be built cheap ... but that didn't have to mean some of the stuff they did.

Similarly, while immigration undoubtedly affected labour markets in some sectors, the relationship between wages, productivity, housing supply and living standards is probably more complicated than a simple supplyanddemand model alone can explain. Britain also experienced deindustrialisation, technological change and the weakening of organised labour across several decades, often simultaneously.

I would also gently correct one historical point. Elephant and Castle itself was not named after Catherine of Aragon or the Infanta of Castile, however attractive the story sounds. Historians generally trace the name either to an old coaching inn or possibly a corruption of “Infanta de Castilla”, though the latter remains disputed rather than established fact. My family is from East Ham - part of it.

On Birmingham, I still resist the idea that decline was inevitable or that the city has been in continuous collapse since the 1960s. Not so. Birmingham for long periods remained a remarkably productive, inventive and civically confident place. My own feeling remains that the deeper rot set in later, when managerial politics increasingly replaced civic imagination and when internal party democracy weakened substantially.

And finally, I would probably avoid reading too much into the “year ending in 8” theory before the crystal ball overheats completely! Economic crises have tended to arise from long global cycles and structural weaknesses rather than numerology, though I concede 2008 was certainly spectacular enough to tempt fate. Allthough the Bible does give a simular number.

In any event, thought-provoking as always and I look forward to the next instalment once the iPad has recovered sufficiently to permit further constitutional reflection.

Mike Olley's avatar

Again, an interesting analysis and thank you for taking the time to write it all out.

Yes, I am a Labour man, though at times recently Labour and I appear to have agreed to a temporary separation…!!

I do not accept that Labour “caused” the 2008 crash. By any reasonable measure that was an internationaly financial crisis driven by increasingly reckless behaviour within global capital markets and the packaging of risky financial products that many people barrely understood. I do however accept that Labour became caught up in the hype and the rather absurd notion that boom and bust had somehow been defeated. I remember thinking at the time that this was a very dangerous assumption.

As for the bank bailouts, I still think intervention was essential. Allowing major banks simply to collapse would have been catastrophic. I also never thought taking controlling interests in the banks was necessarily a bad thing. If anything, we perhaps failed to use that moment to reshape banking more fundamentally, separating safer consumer banking from the more speculative casino-style activities that caused so much damage in the first place. In many ways some of those excesses are quietly creeping back. Captain Mainwaring may have been a silly arse but I guess as a banker he was trustworthy...

Others than that, I actually find myself leaning towards agreement with quite a lot of what you say, particularly about political parties losing the habit of listening properly to the public and becoming too tied to institutional interests and internal orthodoxies.

In any event, thank you again. Thought-provoking as always and I look forward to your next offering, even if my iPad may require medical attention by the end of it!!

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